Ciabatta using Double Flour Addition/Double Hydration
Feb 1st, 2009 by SteveB
In the previous post (More Musings on Mixing… ), I described a newly devised ‘double flour addition’ dough mixing technique which will allow a home baker, using a conventional tabletop stand mixer, to produce a well developed, nicely aerated dough nearly identical to those produced by professional bakers using commercial mixing equipment. While it was demonstrated that one could use the double flour addition technique to produce a pain au levain with the desired open crumb, there was still a question about the versatility of the technique. Could double flour addition be used to produce the type of high hydration dough used to create the wide open crumb structure characteristic of a ciabatta?
To answer this question, I decided to go back to my original ciabatta recipe (Ciabatta using Double Hydration) and modify it slightly by introducing a double flour addition step near the beginning. In essence, the ciabatta dough was prepared through a tandem ‘double flour addition/double hydration’ sequence. The result was a loaf with the wide open, slightly translucent crumb structure characteristic of a classic artisanal ciabatta.
Poolish
- 190 g King Arthur Organic Select Artisan Flour
- 190 g Water
- 1/8 tsp. Instant Yeast
Final Dough
- 310 g King Arthur Organic Select Artisan Flour
- 190 g Water
- 10 g Salt
- 1/8 Tsp. Instant Yeast
- 15 g Olive Oil
- 380 g (all of the above) Poolish
The night before baking, the poolish is made by mixing the flour, water and yeast until all the ingredients are well incorporated. The poolish is then covered with plastic wrap and allowed to rest at 70ºF overnight until mature, about 12 hours.
The next day, all of the poolish is added to only 150 g of the full 190 g of water (the remaining 40 g of water is set aside for later use) in the bowl of a stand mixer. The olive oil is then added and the mixture is mixed at low speed, using the whisk attachment, until a homogeneous slurry is obtained, about 2 minutes. The mixer speed is then increased to speed 3 and enough of the flour (~ 25-30 g) is added to produce a thin batter capable of maintaining a stable air emulsion. The whisking is continued for an additional minute after which time the mixer is stopped and the remaining flour and yeast is added. Switching to a spiral dough hook, the mixture is mixed on speed 2 just until all the flour is hydrated, about another 2 minutes. The resulting mixture is then covered and allowed to rest at 76ºF for an autolyse period of 30 minutes.
After the 30 minute autolyse, the salt is added and the dough is mixed with the spiral dough hook at speed 3 until a smooth, medium soft consistency dough is obtained, about 10 minutes. With the mixer still at speed 3, the remaining 40 g of water is added in small increments over a period of another 10 minutes, with each incremental addition being added only after the previous addition has been fully incorporated. The resulting very fluid dough was then transferred to an oiled container, covered and allowed to ferment for 3 hours.
After the 3 hours are up, the dough is turned out onto a well-floured surface and is divided in half. Each dough piece is then gently stretched to the ciabatta’s characteristic oblong shape, placed on a well-floured couche, covered and allowed to proof at 76ºF for 1 hour. After proofing, the dough pieces are gently flipped onto a transfer peel and then slid from the transfer peel onto an oven peel. The dough pieces are then loaded into an oven pre-heated to 450°F. The pieces are baked at 450ºF for 35 minutes, under steam for the first 15 minutes of baking. The resulting loaves have a nice crispy, light crust with a wide open interior crumb.
(submitted to YeastSpotting)
Lovely looking ciabatta! Honestly, I’ve never really understood the ‘double hydration’ method – although I’ve used it – I’m not sure what it’s supposed to do? Ease of mixing, perhaps?
Anyway, I tried the ‘double flour addition’ method for the pain au levain in your earlier post (scaled down the recipe to 3/4x) and didn’t have much luck. The dough lacked strength after second proofing. It pancaked when I turned it out for scoring. Fortunately I had enough oven spring to leave me with a reasonable bread but the crumb structure was not great.
My thoughts are, for hand mixing, a good 10 minute ‘french fold’ workout after autolyse combined with some folds during bulk ferment are all that is required for decent crumb. Perhaps it would be different if I were using a mixer.
Anyway, I tried!
Cheers,
FP
Oh Wow! This ciabatta is a beauty, it just seems … perfect!
Do you think one could replace the poolish by 100% hydration starter with similar results?
FP, I had a feeling that hand whisking might have limited utility during a hand mix, but it was worth the try. Good job!
Double hydration allows one to develop the gluten to the proper extent quicker than if all the water was added at once.
Flo, there’s only one way to find out…
FP, if you add all of the water at once, the gluten may never get developed because there is too much water in the dough. By using the double hydration method, you add enough water, so the dough can develop its gluten. You add enough water at the first stage, so the dough can develop to a medium soft consistency. Once the dough has developed its gluten, then you can add the second batch of water (in this case the 40g of water). At this stage the dough is not going to breakdown but will continue to absorb the extra water. I once saw Craig Ponsford demonstrated his “water bread” or ciabatta that has 95% hydration in the total formula. He did not used the double hydration method, but he mixed the dough by hand. The whole hand mixing process was the equivalent of a “short mix.” The first fermenation was about 3 hours, and he made 3 folds (45 mins apart). The resulting crumb had very big hole structures with a gelantinous crumb that was almost transparent. So, there is another method to achieve this type of crumb instead of using the double hydration method.
I have the levain bread on it’s second rise, ready to go into the oven! I used my recipe, but with your technique. I promise to try your exact recipe for ciabatta VERY soon! It is absolutely prefect. I have to be able to concentrate so I have to choose the right day. Jane
Steve – I saw your post from the fresh loaf and when I saw the bread I was pretty stoked as I’ve been unable to get the crumb development I wanted in ciabatta. How critical is the 76°? By my instant read thermometer my kitchen never gets over about 67 in the winter. I do have a proof function on my oven but that gets higher than 76.
BTW, thanks for the blog which I just discovered and will be visiting regularly!
Dennis, good temperature control is critical to baking good bread. Because the temperature in my kitchen can get down to 60ºF during the winter, I’ve constructed a proof box that allows me to create a controlled temperature environment. Details regarding my proof box can be found around half-way down this thread.
That is one gorgeous looking ciabatta!
Now I only need to quit my day job, so I can concentrate on trying every single bread recipe in my ever-increasing “to make soon” bread folder
Hard to believe you could have improved on the first ciabatta you posted, but you did. Excellent crumb there!
Thanks for the info!
I saw the proof box, very clever. Do you add any humidity to the box?
Dennis, if the air is particularly dry, I’ll place a bowl of very hot water in the proof box along with my dough. Otherwise, I’ll just have the dough in there.
Hi,
I tried the double hydratation technique last week end and I made levain bread on a stiff levain. In order to testing the technique, I used the same quantities for two different processes:
*Quantities:
- 240 Grams T80 Wheat flour (21°C ~ 70°F)
- 240 Grams T110 Wheat flour (21°C ~ 70°F)
- 10 Grams gluten
- 360 Grams water (26°C ~ 79°F)
- 200 Grams Mature stiff levain (60% hydratation)
- 10 Grams Salt
Room temperature : 23°C ~ 73,5°F
*1st process (my usual recipe):
- Autolysed 100% flour + 100% gluten + 90% water, autolyse period : 45 minutes
- Kneaded the previous dough adding 100% levain + 10% water + salt
- 1st fermentation : 2 hours and a half (1 fold around 1h30)
- 2nd fermentation : 1h30 to 2h00
*2nd process (double hydratation):
- Whisk mixing 15% flour + 100% gluten + 100% water + , rest period : 30 minutes
- Kneaded the previous dough adding 85% flour + salt
(I had to add water while I was hand kneading the dough)
- 1st fermentation : 2 hours and a half (1 fold around 1h30)
- 2nd fermentation : 1h30 to 2h00
*Result:
The bread was great with the first process. But the dough lacked a bit of strength. By using the double hydratation technique:
- I added more water to the dough,
- I could have let a longer period for the 2nd fermentation because the dough had enough strength and extensibility to bear 30 to 60 minutes more before putting in the oven,
- The “grigne” was more developed,
- The crumb was a bit different from what I usually get.
I’ll think I’ll give another try next week end using another bread recipe.
PS: I also tried using a liquid levain but I did not follow strictly the same baking conditions.
Hi,
Sorry, I had not noticed my first comment had not been posted. So let’s introduce myself. I live in Paris and I really like bread and pastry making. It’s been a while I have started reading your recipes.
Interesting recipes and tests!
Keep on making bread
Hi RB13, welcome to Bread cetera!
I am a bit confused. Perhaps I am misreading something but is it possible that you meant to say that your 1st process (usual recipe) is a double hydration and your second process is a double flour addition?
Hi,
Sorry, my mistake, you did not misread what I wrote. The second process is the double flour addition and the first one is the double hydratation/autolyse.
Thx for welcoming me on Bread Cetera.
[...] Ciabatta [...]
OMG, loving this bread. Look at the texture, gorgeous.
Cheers,
Elra
Elra, I’m glad you like the ciabatta. If you ever get the opportunity, you should try making it yourself. It’s actually quite easy.
Congratulations, Steve! It is a perfect ciabatta and the technique is very interesting. I’ll try it next weekend (Valentine’s Day). My husband LOVES ciabatta…
Just a side question: where do you find King Arthur Organic Select Artisan Flour? On KA’s website, I only see the Organic High Gluten.
Hi MC,
King Arthur Organic Select Artisan Flour is one of their ‘professional’ flours, sold only in 50 lb. bags. Its specifications can be found here. I prefer its higher ash content and slightly lower (11.3%) protein content. I purchase it through a local restaurant supply store.
I just discovered your blog and very glad I did. Wonderful breads!
Your ciabatta is amazing!
Hi Lien and welcome to Bread cetera! I’m glad you’re enjoying the site.
Have you tried KA’s “European-Style Artisan Bread” or “French Style” flours yet? I am curious what kind of results you get, and how it might differ from your favorite KA flour. I have some on order, and will try them out when it arrives… I’m not sure I’m quite ready for a 50# bag of flour yet, though maybe in time…
Jim, I haven’t tried either of the flours that you’ve mentioned. My understanding is that they only come in 3 lb. bags. That quantity of flour, and the price of the flour at that quantity, makes it hard for me to get excited about these products.
I agree 100%. I am going to try them out of curiosity, but would never make a habit of it. I guess I am hopeful if they are popular, KA will start offering them in larger quantities at a better price.
By the way, have you found a good container for your 50lb bag? If I had a good sealing container to keep it fresh, and the Indian mealworms out, I would consider buying in bulk.
I love yore ciabatta.
Excellent crumd….the holes looks perfect.
Hi Steve, am following your recipe exactly. Even bought the 50 lb. bag of KA’s organic artisan flour (courtesy of a friend in the restaurant business.) It’s rising now and I am concerned about the “saltiness.” It seems too salty. Is 10 grams the correct amount? You didn’t specify what kind of salt so I just used regular table salt. I’m hoping you’ll tell me the dough SHOULD taste a bit salty….
Thanks, BG
Steve, the bread turned out like professionally baked ciabatta. (I used a pizza stone.) And, yes, the bread does seem just a bit salty. So, I will check the calibration of my scale but if that’s accurate, I’ll reduce the salt slightly. Truly, this bread is superb. Many thanks!!!
BG, glad your ciabatta turned out. I just tried the recipe, with final baking tonight, and it did not turn out properly. I only had KA all purpose and bread flour, which I mixed half and half. I also used a pizza stone. I think the double hydration worked ok, as the texture looked ok while adding the last water and after the first rise, and the gas pockets were huge. But like foolishpoolish, mine lacked enough strength and pancaked. One of the two halves got some spring in the oven, while the other did not. My family did not seem to mind, and enjoyed the resulting flatbread at dinner, with some rosemary olive oil, but I was disappointed. Your success has given me the courage to try again this weekend.
Jim, I’d try the King Arthur European-Style Artisan Bread Flour – 3 lb. available online at the KA site. It’s pricey but so is buying 50 lbs. of the Organic Select Artisan Flour wholesale. That’s a lotta flour! Did you use the bread hook, etc.? I gently flipped the dough over on the same peel, and slid it onto the pizza stone which had preheated for at least 20 min. in my conventional oven. I have a pan on the bottom of the oven and poured 1 c. boiling water in. 7-9 min. later I did it again. Our kids own a wine bar and serve very pricey ciabatta from a local bakery. My goal is to make even better ciabatta and maybe I can get free wine for bread. Don’t give up! But do get better flour….
BG, thanks for the advice. I have a 3lb bag of Euro Artisan on order. I’m not sure what the Vitamin C does in it, though. I used a KAid with spiral dough hook. Bottled water. Used a heavily floured peel and pre-heated pizza stone. I also pour boiling water into a tray at bottom of oven. I think the flip is where it went wrong. I can live with the pancaking for now. My bigger concern was the crust and crumb, which was bland and did not have the right flavor or texture. Hopefully diff flour will solve that problem, and better technique will solve the pancaking. I’d try it again now, but I have dinner rolls rising in my oven for a lunch party tomorrow, so I’ll have to wait. I agree that ciabatta can be very expensive, which is why I would prefer to make my own.
BG and Jim, thanks for continuing your dialog during my brief absence. Regarding saltiness, I have been using French sel gris which is a sea salt with a much milder, less biting saltiness than U.S. table salt. I apologize for not mentioning that during my discussion of the recipe. As with any bread recipe, the amount of water and salt should be adjusted to suit the particular flour being used and the tastes of the consumers.
BG, great to hear that the recipe worked out well for you!
Jim, not getting a good oven spring (is that what you’re referring to with the term ‘pancaking’?) can be the result of an insufficiently developed dough. You may need to add a folding step during the first fermentation to strengthen the dough. Added ascorbic acid (vitamin C) serves to strengthen the dough as well. A flattened loaf can also be the result of over or under proofing.
Hi Steve,
I love Ciabatta very much and very glad to find your website which provides me a lot of tech information. I tried your recipe and made twice last week. The first one came out with a bit solid (as I’m not used to hand knead such a wet dough) and 2nd one came out with perfect apperance and inside texture.
I don’t know if I can find KA in Taiwan, but will try and see what’s different in between later on.
Thanks for your lovely blog, giving my family a new taste of breads.
Doreen
Hi Doreen, I’m glad you persevered and were able to obtain a good ciabatta loaf. Part of the fun of bread baking, at least for me, is trying out different flours. I’m sure any Taiwanese readers would be interested to hear of your experiences with the various types of flour you find in Taiwan that are suitable for bread baking.
LOL! Looks like I’m the only one having trouble reproducing the wonderful picture above. I tried it again today, using the KA Euro Artisan flour, and still had trouble with “pancaking”. Specifically, after the 3 hour fermentation, when I turned out the dough, and cut into two halves for shaping, each half gradually spread out on its own thinner and thinner until pancake shaped. There was not enough body to the dough to keep it shaped. I went ahead with the rest of the recipe anyway, and had some success. One of the two loaves got enough spring in the oven to form large holes and rise a couple inches. The good news is that on this one loaf, the crust, crumb, texture, and flavor was absolutely perfect. I sliced it lengthwise and made Panini’s for dinner, and the family loved them. I’ve got the Poolish fermenting tonight, for another attempt tomorrow.
Hey SteveB, very interesting. There is no denying that you have produced bread with marvelous holes. I have another theory however. I think that the kind of air holes and the webbed gluten structure found in a good baguette comes from prolonged contact with a high thermal mass at a high temperature. When a piece of dough is placed on the hearth of an oven, the hearth heats the bottom of the dough and s causes the water at the bottom of the dough to vaporize. This vapor rips through the dough causing a web-like gluten structure throughout. If you look at the air holes at the bottom edge of a good baguette you will see that the holes are aligned vertically. I think this is caused by water in the dough vaporizing rapidly and boiling upwards.
You can’t get this from baking on a pizza stone. A pizza stone doesn’t have enough thermal mass to maintain a high temperature. When you place a piece of dough on the stone, the temperature of the stone drops and the bottom of the bread doesn’t boil. This is just my theory mind you…I’ve never verified any of this nor have I ever found anything of this sort written in any book. You can simulate prolonged contact with high thermal mass by heating up a frying pan to around 450F to 500F and keeping the flame close to high. Place a piece of dough with adequate gluten development on the pan. The dough will puff up with nice air holes inside…. you will be able to see these vertically aligned air holes (after the dough puffs up, place it in a hot oven to continue baking). The thermal conductivity of the material used to make the hearth affects the rate of heat transfer between the two bodies. How does this affect the dough? Who knows.
Anyway…..these are just ideas floating through my head…..just food for thought.
If you have a copy of BREAD by Hamelman, take a look at the pictures between pages 128 and 129. There are pictures of several baguettes. One is baked on a hearth with steam another without steam. These both have a web-like gluten structure.
Another baguette is baked on a sheet pan. This one has a tighter gluten structure with no gluten webs. There is another baguette baked on a baguette screen. This structure is even more closed. What is the conclusion? The open web structure is caused by the hearth.
Keep in mind that I may be complete wrong.
Hi Albert, thank you for your comments. My contention is that it is a number of factors (including dough aeration, dough rheology, heat transfer, oven humidity, etc.), all working in concert, that ultimately determine crumb structure. If just one of these factors is sub-optimal, one may have a difficult time obtaining the desired crumb structure. Up until this point, I haven’t been able to affect dough aeration to any great extent when using a home stand mixer. The double flour addition technique now allows me to do so.
Hey Steve,
Last time I posted, I wrote about the trouble I had with the pain au levain. Well since then, I’ve been on a bit of break from baking (starter trouble) but just made some rye with my brand new starters.
I’ve been concentrating less on mixing and more on the fermentation process. Seems like there are all sorts of factors involved in crumb structure. Anyway, the results are looking good so far!
Cheers for now,
FP
thank steeve for this receipe, i want to give it a try but before i have a question in your first ciabatta receipe you fold the dough at 1 et 2 marks during the proofing process i am used to fold the dough to obtain nice holes in this receipe what i understood you do not have to fold it at all to obtain such beautiful holes is that correct?
FP, glad to hear that you have your starter issues all sorted out and that you are back on track!
anis, you are correct. With this recipe, I found that I did not have to fold the dough during the first fermentation. Please note, though, that depending upon the flour you are using and the degree to which you are able to develop the dough during mixing, you may or may not have to include one or more folds to give the dough adequate strength.
Steeve, thank you very much for this very helpfull answer!!
waaaaaaaaaaaouh the ciabatta was just perfect !!! many thanks for this recipe it is my best bread to date! I achieved the wide open crumb just a little bit less than yours maybe because i didn’t divide it in two and don’t use nor the same flour neither the same cooking preocess and couldn’t help may myself making turns durint the 3 hours proofing! I baked mine in a cast iron pot preheated with the oven and it turned really fantastic!
Hi Steve,
I think it is the best ciabatta I ever made.
I try your recipe today, and it worked perfektly for me.
Thanks for the recipe!
Stefanie
Stefanie, it’s always gratifying to hear when a recipe works out well for a reader. Thanks for writing!
Thanks Steve for all your experiments. I usually hand knead & use a double water addition because it seems easier to get gluten development with a firmer dough.
I have now dug out my old KitchenAid & tried 2 bakings with your double flour addition & double hydration. The first was the Norwich sourdough from Susan’s Wild Yeast blog, the second Jeffrey Hamelman’s five grain bread with a rye sourdough starter. Both breads had a much more open crumb than usual. The crumb in the Hamelman loaf was exceptionally open and lacey – astonishing considering the huge weight of seeds & whole grains.
Thanks again, I’ll be trying the method on other breads this weekend. Patsy
Patsy, thanks for informing us of the results you obtained using the double flour addition method. I was particularly interested to hear of your results with Hamelman’s five grain bread. I’m typically not a fan of breads of this type because of their dense crumb structure but your results have me re-thinking my preferences.
Really Steve, it was a thing of beauty – open, lacey & speckled with flax & sunflower seeds. I think I increased the hydration a little but this was a fabulous loaf, well worth trying!
[...] Ciabatta, das Steve von Bread cetera mit doppelten Mehlzugabe/ doppelter Hydration gebacken hat, ist [...]
Hola Steve, realmente la ciabatta tiene un aspecto fabuloso.
¿Usted cree que sería posible conseguir este producto en un proceso en continuo, sin la preparación del Poolish?, es decir, realizar el proceso sin parar.
Muchas gracias por la información tan interesante que nos facilita.
Hola Vicente, gracias por los cumplidos. Yo no hablo español, pero voy a utilizar Google traductor.
Usted podría probablemente Ciabatta sin poolish utilizando un proceso continuo, pero la Ciabatta probablemente no tienen el mismo sabor.
Hello Steve
Sorry. I also speak good English but I will try
I understand that not using the pin affects the flavor of the product. In my country, this bread is usually add olive oil to enhance the flavor so this topic did not think he harmed.
What I care is powerfully called the alveoli with the product and the amount of hydration. That is what I wonder if you could do without stopping.
Also the characteristics of the flour you used, W, PL,% moisture, etc …
thanks for your attention
Hi Vicente,
A high hydration (76% in this recipe) is typically needed to produce the large alveoli (open crumb) obtained here. Such a wet dough may be difficult for some machines to handle, if you are looking to set up an automatic, continuous production process.
The specifications for the King Arthur Organic Select Artisan flour used for this ciabatta recipe can be found at this link.
Amazing news, thank you!
Hi Steve
Thank you for such a wonderful blog!!!
I have been reading your posts for bedtime stories so very often lately
I’m from Bangkok and new in bread baking but already have spent too much money buying all the equipments recommended on internet like KA standmixer. Still, it’s so hard to find good ingredients here. King Arthur Organic Select Artisan Flour is not available here and all i can get a hand on is just bleached all purpose or bread flour of local brand. which one should i use?
I notice that flour here in Thailand absorbs so much water and many of my doughs ended up too dry. I guess it’s because of higher protein content. so maybe bleached all purpose will be ok?
thanks so much and i am really thank you for all the info you share with us. you have inspired me to go on with baking bread despite all the obstacles. next time i go to the US, i make sure i buy all the things i can’t buy here like silpain, superpeel, couche and so on!
Gaew, I’m glad you’re enjoying reading Bread cetera. I was amused to hear that you read the entries posted here as bedtime stories. I realize that baking bread isn’t the most exciting endeavor, but I never thought that my posts would put people to sleep!
When baking bread, I generally try to use an unbleached, unbromated flour with a protein content of between 11-12%. The amount of water that should be added when mixing the dough is highly dependent upon the protein content of the flour being used. I would recommend adding either a bit more or a bit less water than the recipe suggests, if necessary, to get to the dough consistency described.
Steve,
Have you decided the King Arthur Organic Select Artisan Flour is your flour of choice for all French style breads?
Also, have you tried the double flour/hydration method on your Baguettes?
The Ciabatta is wonderful every time. Thank you.
Eric
Hi Eric,
For most of the French breads I bake, I’ve settled on using either King Arthur Organic Select Artisan Flour or Heartland Mill Organic All-Purpose Flour. I like both the somewhat lower (~11.2-11.4%) protein content of these flours and the flavor that is obtained when using them.
I do use the double flour addition technique whenever I make baguettes. Perhaps sometime in the future I should publish a post updating my method for baking baguettes.
Hello, Steve:
May I ask which mixer you are using to achieve the great results of your cibatta? I remember you were joking about selling one of the expensive models on TFL because you don’t need it anymore. Which one are you keeping to do the job?
I’m thinking about buying a new mixer because I don’t think the KA artisan I own has delivered good results (in terms of achieving good gluten development without over mixing). I’ve rarely used it for mixing bread since I bought it about a year ago. I keep going back to use the dough function of my Zojirushi, which can’t withstand large dough sizes.
Recently someone commented at the TFL forum about spiral dough hooks. May be I should switch to a more professional model. Before I do that, I’d like to get some good reference. I’d very much appreciate it if you could provide some input. Thanks.
Yippee
Hi Yippee,
The mixer I am currently using, and the one I used to mix the dough for the ciabatta shown above, is a KitchenAid Professional 6 mixer fitted with a spiral dough hook. In general, I find that KitchenAid mixers are not well designed to properly mix and develop bread dough. It is for that reason that I developed the double flour addition technique. Be forewarned, though, that the double flour addition technique has the KitchenAid mixer running for a time at speed 3, which is counter to KitchenAid’s instructions and can void the mixer’s warranty.
Mixers better suited for home bread dough mixing include the SP5 countertop spiral mixer, the Hobart N50 planetary mixer and any other high-torque, direct drive planetary mixer. Unfortunately, these mixers can be quite pricey.
Magnifico !!! I don’t think I have to translate that
Fantastic work Steve ….. I’ll be back soon.
I looked at your proofing box instructions. However, to keep the proofing temperature just right, what do you put in the proofing box with the dough? A cup (how much) of hot water (what temp).
thanks,
Tanya
Tanya, nothing needs to be put in the proof box that I use to maintain the temperature. The proof box is constructed incorporating a 60 watt incandescent lightbulb attached to an inexpensive pet enclosure thermostat. Simply dial in the temperature you want on the thermostat and the lightbulb acts as a heat source, cycling on and off to maintain the desired temperature.
Your ciabatta looks perfect & superb.
However, do you have any ideas to produce the same quality ciabatta in commercial scale?
For my practice, my formula as follow
All purpose flour 1000g
Yeast 7g
Water 700g
salt 20g
Olive oil 50g
Firstly, i will mix a bulk dough by the commercial spiral mixer, and then we will divide the dough into 3000g/pc (we usually make 20 piece everytime) and let it ferment in room temperature for 1.5 – 2 hours. and then will bring the fermented dough to the dough sheeter and flaten the dough (to ensure the dough is easier to divide and maintain the standard size). The sheeted dough and then will put in to the big plastic box to form a rectangular shape and let it rest for 20 mins, afterwards, the rested dough will transfer to the flour dusted surface and then divide the dough into small rectangular shape (6X10cm). And then will transfer the dough to the baking tray to ferment for 1 hour and bake. However, i found that my ciabatta is dense crumb without any big hole in side. If possible, can you advise some method to produce the artisan ciabatta in commercial scale.
Macfield, I wish I could help you but I am a home baker without any commercial baking experience. Perhaps a baking school that instructs professional bakers, such as the San Francisco Baking Institute or the King Arthur Flour Education Center may be able to help.
Hi steve, just a question, i’m wondering why u used the same quantity of yeast for poolish and for the dough.
Generally the quantity used for the dough is bigger than poolish just to build a solid structure for the various ingredients.
I know that u use a long fermentation (3 more hours) but in my case the bread was woderful but not very grown in the oven.
Sorry for my english.
Mrsmith, the quantity of yeast used for the poolish is that amount which will yield a fully mature poolish in approximately 12 hours at 70ºF. Because the final dough is of fairly high hydration, fermentation occurs at a faster rate when compared to firmer doughs and therefore less yeast is required for the 3 hour fermentation period than is typical.
Baguettes? Did you mention baguettes? I bake ‘em almost daily. Could we please have your ‘updated’ formula? Thanks Steve, great job.
Hi Calvinator,
Thanks for the nice words. I’m not sure how a comment on baguettes found its way onto a post on ciabatta, but in case you missed it, the formula I currently use for baguettes can be found here. I’ve modified the procedure slightly by incorporating the double flour addition technique. The poolish is first whisked with the water and a small portion of the flour to get an aerated mixture. The remainder of the flour and the instant yeast is then added and the dough is mixed using a planetary mixer fitted with a spiral dough hook until all the flour is incorporated. After a 30 minute autolyse, the salt is added and the dough is mixed to medium development using speed 3. The remainder of the procedure is as described in the link above.
[...] ou la technique originale qui vous aide à faire votre pain. Exemple: la double hydratation et le double ajout de farine, de SteveB. [...]
[...] experimentiert gern herum. Meist mit Erfolg. Zwei seiner “Erfindungen” hat er in einem Ciabatta-Rezept verewigt: “double flour addition” und “double hydration”. Das Ergebnis ist [...]
Your ciabatta looks wonderful. Thank you for sharing.
One quick question: Bread dough is often “punched down” between the rising and the proofing steps. Did you punch yours down?
Thanks.
Hi Emma,
I don’t ‘punch down’ my doughs in the conventional sense, where I would try to remove all the gas bubbles in the dough. However, during pre-shaping and shaping, I might deflate some of the larger gas bubbles that migrate and protrude from the surface of the dough. Other than that, why would anyone want to eliminate something that one worked so hard to achieve?
I love all this. I’m a beginner and am reading everything I can get my hands on about bread/pizza making.
Thanks for everything. …….. P
Polly, I’m glad to hear that you’re enjoying your visits to Bread cetera.
I have had a great bread from 7 stars bakery in providence ri that seems like a large hole chibatta but is definitly durum based. Will this thechnique work with a durum wheat ( semolina flour ) ?
Hi Neal,
I’ve been to the Seven Stars Bakery in Providence some time ago, though I don’t think I sampled their durum rustic Italian loaf at that time. Be that as it may, the tandem double flour addition/double hydration technique should be applicable to durum-based doughs as well. It’s important to note that the use of the technique is only one of a number of factors that contribute to a wide-open crumb, the others including the dough’s hydration and how gentle the baker is in handling the dough.
Hi Steve, What a wonderful site you have here! I am trying to do this ciabatta today. I made your multigrain bread before and it was great. I find a lot of inspiration here!!!
I am from Venezuela and live in Taiwan.
Lately, I have been visiting your page very often. Lovely breads, all of them!
Thank you
Hi Hilmar,
Thanks for the kind words. I’m glad that you’re enjoying baking some of the breads that have been posted here. I hope your ciabatta turned out to your liking.
Steve,
Thank you for taking the time to write this blog. Your breads are beautiful.
I made your ciabatta recipe (my first real loaf of bread) yesterday. I created the stable air emulsion from the tandem technique, then used your slap kneed double hydration technique.
Add the end of a 20+ minute mixing process, I was unable to achieve a smooth dough. With each fold of the dough you could clearly see the gluten strands breaking (The dough was still pretty wet, sticking to the counter slightly). I used 40% all purpose and 60% bread flour (both king Arthur).
I folded in the rest of the water and let the dough rise. It more than doubled, but I totally deflated it taking it out of the bowl because it was so fluid (even though I just scraped the sides of the bowl, it was almost batter like, just barely holding together). I floured the couche really well, but the dough was so wet, it still stuck ever so slightly. I transfered to the oven using your techniques and baked using your steam setup.
I was happy with the end product except for the amount of flour on the outside of the loaf and crumb was not as open as yours. I plan to make this again as soon as these loaves are eaten.
Do you think I needed to let the dough rest and then knead again or just do it longer? Should I use all bread flour?
If I active the gluten better will it be easier to remove the dough without deflation it? I was thinking about scaling each loaf and putting each in a well oiled container before the 3 hour rise.
How do you remove all the flour from the loaves (your new tandem technique loaf has no flour on it at all)? I was thinking about spraying the loaves with water before putting them in oven.
Here is a picture, of my loaf and crumb:
http://tinyurl.com/2f7okzz
Thanks for your help,
-Matt
Hi Matt,
Your compliments are greatly appreciated.
Since you state that this is your first ‘real ‘ loaf of bread, might I suggest that you first try the recipe as written without making any changes (with the possible exception of using King Arthur All Purpose flour in lieu of King Arthur Organic Select Artisan flour, if the latter is not readily available)? Once you start getting acceptable, reproducible results, it would then be appropriate, if you wish, to experiment with changing various baking parameters. I would only change one parameter at a time so that you can make a direct correlation between the change made and the effect it had on your bread.
If you have any questions once you’ve attempted to duplicate the procedure I’ve detailed in the blog post, please feel free to send me an e-mail through the “Contact Me” page of this website.
Hi,
I tried the recipe and I found it very difficult to work with. It was quite wet and sticky. I tried to flour the surface and the work area as much as I could, but to no avail. I also had trouble forming the ciabatta shape because the dough would just spread out under it’s own weight. Any tips on how to improve this? Should I add more flour to stiffen the structure? Any advice or help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Hi Rich,
The ciabatta dough is indeed quite wet and sticky. If you are finding that the ‘shaped’ ciabatta is spreading out excessively, then it indicates that the gluten wasn’t sufficiently developed during mixing and you should either increase your mixing time or add one or two stretch and fold steps during the 3 hour fermentation.
Hi again, I tried the recipe using king arthur all purpose for the poolish and durum for the rest. came out ok, nice color and waxiness and larger crumb. The crumb was not as airy and large as your above pictures. The bread was but too flat. Any suggestions?? How about more yeast in either the poolish or the dough??
Thank you for your help.
Neal
Hi again, basically the holes were too small
Thank you for your help.
Neal
Hi Neal,
Without being there right beside you, seeing exactly how you are preparing and handling your ciabatta dough, it’s difficult for me to pinpoint your specific problem. I would, however, suggest that the quantity of yeast you are using is probably not the problem.
Durum flour has a relatively high protein content. Higher protein content doughs tend to need longer mixing times for comparable gluten development. A spreading loaf lends further credence to the idea that the gluten wasn’t adequately developed. You might try mixing the dough for a longer period of time or adding a couple of folds during the 3 hour fermentation.
Thanks I will give it a shot !
Thanks Steve. I’ll try to increase the mix time. Will let you know if anything changes.
Steve,
Just made this bread. I couldn’t wait for it to cool down to room temperature … so I cut a slice dipped it in Olive oil took a bite … and then I was magically transported to my favorite italian restaurant.
Wow! I didn’t realize just how good your recipes are.
Tom
Tom,
The dirty little secret is that recipes have relatively little to do with baking good bread. It’s all in the baker’s knowledge and technique and it sounds as if yours are right up there!
[...] Originalrezept stammt von Michel Suas. SteveB hat es damals leicht verändert. Mit dem Ergebnis war ich sehr zufrieden. Da zur Zeit der 32. Bread Baking Day zum Thema [...]
Thanks Steve for Breadcetera.
Your ciabatta really piques my interest in bread-making.
You mentioned that temperature is really important in making bread.
I’m located in Asia and hence high humidity and temperatures around 86F is common.
Will this bring down the proofing to 1/2hr?
Hi Serene,
For a given quantity of yeast, higher temperatures will most definitely shorten fermentation and proofing times. As a longer fermentation generally aids in the development of better flavor, perhaps you might try decreasing the amount of yeast used.
Interesting formula, I think I’m going to try it out. One question though, after the autolyse you say that there is a 10 minute period of (I assume) using the mixer. Does this not affect the final dough temperature?
Also, you talk about turning the dough out on a “well floured surface”, does this not affect the final hydration? I try to use minimal flour when working with doughs just for that reason.
Can’t wait to try this… looks like an excellent formula and process.
Shawn,
As with all bread formulae, the final dough temperature can be controlled by the temperature of the water added. For a good way to estimate what the water temperature should be, see here.
The well-floured surface will only act to coat the sticky surface of the dough. The dough’s final hydration will not be affected since the dough is not ‘worked’ at this stage. No additional flour is incorporated into the dough.
Steve,
Great recipe. Just wanted to let you know it is entirely possible to do it by hand and get really good results. I must have spent a good 15 to 20 minutes slapping and folding and while it was sticky, it was by no means unmanageable.
I added 1/4 tsp of yeast to the final dough (instead of 1/8 as per the recipe) suspecting that 1/8 would be too little. I was amazed at how much activity I got from so little yeast and afterwards realized it would have worked just as well with the smaller amount. Next time I will know better than to suspect the accuracy of your measurements:)
Here is a link to my finished loaf: http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq184/crispcrust/stevebsciabatta.jpg Many thanks for a wonderful site.
Syd
Syd,
Thanks for letting us know of your experience with hand mixing this high hydration dough. I know of a number of readers who don’t use an electric mixer for developing their doughs, so your comment is greatly appreciated.
I just have a suggestion. You have a lot of nice video’s on working with the bread. How about one on handle the Ciabatta, transferring and such. I did see in a few that you use the Super Peel. Thinking about getting one of them for myself. Nice to see one being used.
Hi Frances,
Thanks for the suggestion. Since I typically bake early on Saturday mornings, I’ll have to see if I can once again convince my videographer (i.e., my wife) to get up early to record my exploits. Something tells me that it may be a hard sell…
[...] und Sauerteig aus Weizen- und Roggenvollkornmehl verwendet. Während der Verarbeitung habe ich die „Double Flour Addition – Double Hydration“-Methode von Steve angewandt. Die Krume ist wie gewünscht mittel- und grobporig geworden. Sie duftet herzhaft-mild [...]
Maybe you should make changes to the blog name Ciabatta using Double Flour Addition/Double Hydration | Bread cetera to more generic for your content you make. I liked the post however.
[...] und Sauerteig aus Weizen- und Roggenvollkornmehl verwendet. Während der Verarbeitung habe ich die “Double Flour Addition – Double Hydration”-Methode von Steve angewandt. Die Krume ist wie gewünscht mittel- und grobporig geworden. Sie duftet herzhaft-mild [...]
[...] Originalrezept stammt von Michel Suas. SteveB hat es damals leicht verändert. Mit dem Ergebnis war ich sehr zufrieden. Da zur Zeit der 32. Bread Baking Day zum Thema [...]
[...] experimentiert gern herum. Meist mit Erfolg. Zwei seiner “Erfindungen” hat er in einem Ciabatta-Rezept verewigt: “double flour addition” und “double hydration”. Das Ergebnis ist [...]
Hard to believe you could have improved on the first ciabatta you posted, but you did. Excellent crumb there!
[...] Throwdown Stuffing. It was alright. I got super adventurous and made my own ciabatta and cornbread. And let me tell you, with a million-and-one things to do? Stupid. Just stupid. [...]
Please can you tell me where I can get the flour King Arthur /or equivalent in the UK
thansk
Hi Angela,
Not having lived in the U.K., I am unable to speak authoritatively on the flour available there. This article by U.K. baker Dan Lepard should answer any questions you might have.
hi steve,
i made your ciabatta bread( double hydration ) 3 times. every thing was good but it becomes flat . i think its because my dough is much fluid and after shaping it into ciabatta style, it becomes flat again, and goes flat into oven. what should i do…?
Hi Rahim,
A flat ciabatta can result from insufficient gluten development during the mixing of the dough. I would first make sure that the flour you are using has a protein content somewhere around 11-12%. Also don’t be afraid to adjust the amount of water you are mixing into the dough in order to give a dough with the characteristics shown or described.
Greetings, I am so very happy. I finally have accomplished this beautiful bread; it is truly delicious. My husband is Italian as many of our friends are…they LOVE the bread.
Hi Deborah,
Congratulations on your success with ciabatta! I hope you continue to have success with future bakes.
Hi I have made ciabetta and after the
12+hours of rising I put cornflour on an
oiled baking sheet and flour my
dough then let rise for 2hours then bake
At 450 spray bread and oven and bake
For 20-25 mind then cool ha ha (who can wait
When bread comes out. Of the oven)
Bon appite
Bobbi
I was looking through all of the posts and responses and I believe that some of the process confusion may be caused by mislabeling. “Double Hydration” really ought to be “incremental hydration”. It’s not that you are doubling up on the hydration, rather that you are applying it in judicial increments. Call me geeky… but that makes more sense. :-}
Hi Danny,
I agree that it is perhaps more accurate to call the described hydration technique an ‘incremental hydration’. However, the term ‘double hydration’ is not one of my choosing but rather one which has already been firmly established as part of the bread baking lexicon. As for the term ‘double flour addition’, I was attempting to follow a similar phraseology to ‘double hydration’ and for that I plead guilty as charged!
Ciao Steve, il tuo commento mi fa sperare che parli italiano..io con l’inglese non tanto
Sono felice di avere conosciuto il tuo blog e le bellissime ricette che hai realizzato, complimenti veramente! La ciabatta era assolutamente favolosa, grazie infinite, a presto!
Ornella,
I am sorry for not being able to reply in Italian.
Thank you for your very nice words about this blog. I am glad you enjoyed the ciabatta recipe. Your ciabatta turned out beautifully.
WOW!! That is one beautiful ciabatta, really impressive and quite intimidating to be honest. I am fairly new to bread baking and not quite familiar yet with all the proper terms and quite lost reading all the comments..whew. I’m going to try your recipe and hope that I’ll get beautiful holes in my bread too. *fingers crossed*. I will let you know how it goes..
thanks for sharing!
Oh my….that is one gorgeous ciabatta! I can imagine the cripy-chewiness just looking at the golden surface and the holes inside. Perfect for a nice pastrami sandwich for breakfast before a big game. Thanks for the recipe, I’ll try it over the weekend
This is probably one of the best crumb I have seen in a ciabatta or in any rustic bread! Great technique. Do you think that it could also produce a nice grigne if shaped and scored like a batard or boule despite the high hydration? Sometimes, I like the look of the ear and bloom but want to see this level of crumb structure in bread. Thanks.
Hi Alex,
It’s been my experience that there is somewhat of a trade-off between high hydration levels and good grigne formation. If the dough is highly hydrated, any scoring tends to lose definition before the oven spring can open the scoring any further.
That has been my experience as well. I was just wondering if I am doing something wrong with my scoring technique. I get a wonderful bloom with 70% and below hydration but whenever I try to go 75% or so, I get dismal results. I have been admiring the country bread from Tartine bakery since they produce this wonderful and very open crumb with a very nice and pronounced ear and bloom.
Hi,
Your ciabatta is so amazing! Thanks for sharing your recipes. I love it.
HI Steve,
I’ve done the recipe twice- the first time, I couldn’t help myself and I folded it twice during the bulk fermentation. It turned out very well. The second time I was more disciplined and I did without the folds, exactly as your recipe calls for. It was perfect! I was looking for a remedy for my crumb, which was a little tight. Your recipe finally put it all together for me! I think the work you have done to bridge the gap for home bakers to get professional results, without having the same equipment, is genius!
FYI, I couldn’t get the Organic Artisan Flour from KA that you mention, so I tried their Organic All Purpose, and it seemed to work great (incidentally, I called their customer service and they told me that the two flours are identical).
A thousand thanks! Bobby
Hi Bobby,
I’m glad the ciabatta formula worked out well for you. As you’ve seen, it is important, particularly with ciabatta, that the proper amount of strength be built into the dough. Knowing when and when not to fold can be key.
King Arthur Flour tends to give different names to its flours, depending upon if they are packaged in 50 lb. sacks for commercial use or in smaller quantities for home use. For example, the KAF Sir Galahad flour sold to commercial bakeries is the same flour as the KAF All Purpose flour available in most supermarkets here in the U.S.
Thanks for the response Steve! Ok, so my question would be: Is there some guideline as to when the dough needs a fold? I have to say, that I think that your mixing technique seems to have it covered, tho.
I’m actually in the middle of your Pain au Levain double flour addition, first rise!
Thanks again!
Bobby,
A fold or two is appropriate whenever the fermentation step is extended (folding helps to redistribute nutrients for the yeast and bacteria and also serves to even out any temperature gradients formed within the dough) or when it appears as if the dough can use some additional strength. Unfortunately, the latter is not something that can be taught but rather is learned through experience.
Hi, SteveB, I just tried this recipe, didn’t have KA flour you used so I subed 10g Whole white wheat – 90g each KA AP and Sir Lancelot.
Also didn’t have a spiral hook but did 3 stretch and folds.
Came out awesome , with a very very surprising oven spring giant holes !!
This is my recipe now for Ciabatta.
Thanks for the site.
Mark
Hi again,Steve. Thank you for your reply. If I want to make your ciabatta but with a lot more and larger aeration holes, even more transparency, and much much lighter, what do you suggest? Longer mixing? longer beating? stronger flour?
I am in Japan so KA of any type is out. but I do have a Lysdor that is a combination of flours, used here alot for french breads and it’s protein level is 11.3
What do you think?
[...] courage to bake my very first Cibatta. I tried SteveB Double Hydration/ Double Flour Cibatta recipe here. His breads are gorgeous; his blog is one of my best bread “porn” blogs ever. Here is my loaf [...]
Hi Steve, I’ve done your ciabatta a few times and I can never get the large holes that it’s supposed to have. The taste is good, no complain there. I’m using KA AP flour and a Kenwood Chef mixer. The only – and I believe extremely important – difference is the ambient temperature. I live in Singapore, where average – day & night – temperature is somewhere around 30C (The “cold” days are at 25C).
What do I need to change – if there is anything – to get the great results this recipe promises ?
Thanks.
Hi Moonshine,
Time and temperature control are extremely important for the production of great bread. If there is no way you can maintain the dough temperature at around 76°F, (perhaps an insulated chest with a cold pack might do the trick?), you would need to shorten the bulk fermentation and proofing times considerably. A careful handling of the dough with minimal degassing also contributes to the open crumb structure.
Hi Steve, can “considerably” be quantified ? Like … for each 1 degree increase in temperature ferment and proof 10min less… Or something like that.
Other option for me is to turn on air-conditioning while baking… Will give it a try and see what happens…
[...] version comes from Bread Cetera, and this guy is as nerdy as I am about bread. This is very much a good thing. Bread folk tend to [...]
Dear Steve,
I have only recently discovered your amazing website. It is really impressive what you have done for yourself, and that you have so much knowledge and skill as to tinker with the recipes, increasing their performance. Anyways, I wanted to tell you that I used your recipe (giving the due credit, link to my modest blog entry here, feel free to see it for yourself: http://www.kriswkuchni.pl/2012/09/ciabatta-o-podwojnej-hydracji.html ) and made the above ciabatta. I used only hands and baked without the stone. I simply have none of the above. The result was nearly as good as yours, I think having proper couches would have helped in shaping the bread properly. One thing I changed, though, was having my oven steamed throughout the entire 35 minutes of baking – the crust was CRUNCHY. Thanks again, will be trying some other of your recipes.
Greetings from Budapest,Krzys
Thanks for sharing yr recipe & techiques on making ciabatta. I tried it yesterday but I use 70% AP flour & 30% Strong white flour (bread flour). Turned out to be the best ciabatta I’ve ever made.
Just wanted to pop in and say thanx for the info
will try out when have the chance
[...] are many recipes for ciabatta in cookbooks and on the web. (Here’s two at Wild Yeast and Breadcetera). Far more important than the recipe is knowing how much to mix, how long to let the dough ferment [...]
EstevB Hi, I’m from Brazil I loved your ciabatta could do once it was perfect I would like to see a video manuciano its mass is only to see if this mass equal thanks.
august